38: The Pivoter with Ann Lopez

In this episode, I get to chat with Ann Lopez, creator of The Pivoter website, which is chock FULL of free resources for those looking to change careers and enter the field of L&D. 

3 years ago, Ann pivoted out of teaching and found her true calling working in the education technology sector. In 2020, when schools were forced to move to remote learning due to the pandemic, she decided to transition back to public education and supported teachers with technology integrations. 

She has since worked as a learning experience designer and is now a product operations manager for an ed tech company. 

When Ann is not geeking out on new technologies, she's a full-time mom to two little kiddos and likes to work on some passion projects to help others. She's also a volunteer mentor for a group called Teaching: A Path to Learning & Development, where she help teachers who are interested in transitioning out of the classroom.

Here's a link to Ann's The Pivoter website: https://thepivoter.preview.softr.app/

Ann's suggestion for those wanting to break into Ed Tech:

• EdSurge website (https://www.edsurge.com/)

Connect with Heidi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heidiekirby/ or on my website: www.heidikirby.com

Thanks for listening to the BLOC!

Connect with me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heidiekirby/

Or check out what I'm working on over at https://www.getusefulstuff.com/

Transcript

Ann Lopez: 0:00

I think oftentimes, a lot of teachers have the same mentality like I only know how to teach. So I don't know anything about project management or the corporate side or the business side of things.

Heidi Kirby: 0:11

Hello, friends, and welcome to the blog, the building learning and organizational culture podcast. I'm your host, Heidi Kirby. And on today's episode, I had the absolute pleasure of talking to somebody who I feel like I've known forever. And Lopez, if you're in learning and development, or you're new to learning and development, she is definitely someone to connect with. She started a website full of resources for those looking to find a career in l&d called the pivoter. And so we talk all about that in this episode. I know you'll love it if you're a fan of l&d organizational culture, customer success, any of it? Hey, Ann, how are you? Hey, Heidi,

Ann Lopez: 1:06

thank you for having me.

Heidi Kirby: 1:08

Thanks for joining me. Let's dive right in here. I want you to just tell me about yourself. Where did you start your career? And how did you end up where you are today?

Ann Lopez: 1:17

Sure. So my name is Anne Lopez, I was a former elementary school ESL teacher for about over a decade. I've also taught abroad for a little bit after I got my graduate degree in Teasle. And I actually plan on becoming a principal. So I actually have a principal license. But that actually didn't pan out the way I wanted to, which I could, I'm sure that I'll probably touch on that a little bit later. And in 2019, I pivoted into educational technology working for a nonprofit organization as a project associate. And then actually went back into public education as a technology coach for middle school. And my most current role is a learning experience designer for an E learning company that provides customer education platform for, you know, bigger name companies, such as Amazon, Google and whatnot.

Heidi Kirby: 2:17

That's awesome. So a little bit of everything in the learning space. So what was the hardest part for you about making a career transition?

Ann Lopez: 2:30

I think the hardest part was just not knowing where to look, or what to look, it's like, you don't know what you don't know. So I had no idea what it is that I wanted to do, or what I can do as a teacher. I think oftentimes, a lot of teachers have the same mentality, like, I only know how to teach. So I don't know anything about project management, or the corporate side, or the business side of things. And so not knowing where to go. And just like, running around like a chicken without a head was really hard. And I didn't know who to reach out to. I didn't know any other teacher in my network. That's like leaving the classroom, I just felt like it was just me. And so that was probably the hardest part, just not knowing where to go, who to talk to.

Heidi Kirby: 3:20

Sure. And there's so many different facets and departments within corporate and within businesses. And like, every different organization is set up a little bit differently. And, you know, there's this very serious funnel right now from teaching to instructional design. But I talked to a lot of different professionals who they're like, Oh, I think I want to be an instructional designer. And then like, my first question is always like, What do you enjoy most about teaching? And sometimes I'll get like the, the answer of like, oh, that light bulb moment, right. And I'm like, if you want to be an instructional designer, and the light bulb moment is your favorite part, you might want to rethink that, because you may never see it again. You know, and it's just interesting that that's become like the funnel. And like, I've literally known people who were like, oh, I want to be an instructional designer. And then like, a couple months later, like, Nope, I was wrong. I want to be a software developer, like something completely different. But it's just like, that seems to be where the funnel is right now. But you've created this really amazing resource for people who are looking to change careers called the pivoter. So I want to talk about that a lot. So first of all, right, tell me what it is and why you kind of decided to start it.

Ann Lopez: 4:52

So the pivoter is essentially a compilation of all the free resources that I've been gathering from on different, like menus. So there's a job board, which has curated at Tech and learning and development jobs. So there's instructional design roles, a bunch of like training specialist role. And then there is also a, I call it like a resume sample repository, which I know you were one of the first one to contribute. Thank you for that. Yeah. Yeah. And then there is. And then I also started a cover letter samples, where people just kind of donated the a cover letter that they use. And so I redacted their info, and then, you know, slap it on there. And then I also curate, like internship opportunities in different industry that do not require applicants to be a student. So oftentimes, we hear that internship is usually for like graduate students or like school. And so I figure like, that is such a great opportunity. But it's not relevant for like job seeker who is in a career pivot. So a lot of times, we don't want to go back to school. Like I already have a master and I have never once thought about when I'm going back to get another master. I well, I lied, I actually thought about going back to get my doctorate. But I was just like, financially, it was just, yeah, it was just not feasible for me. But I really wanted to gain experience without going back to school. I was like, so now what so I figured there must be internship opportunities out there that do not require people to be enrolled in a degree program. And so that's what that's for. So yeah, it has a little bit of everything. But the main theme of it all, is that it's all free. And that's because all everything that I use to create it is free. And so I don't have any kind of overhead costs that I have to cover, I'm not looking to make a profit. And then think, you know, thanks to a lot of generous people like yourself that contributed. It's just a, like a one stop shop for people that want to career pivot out of the classroom.

Heidi Kirby: 6:59

Great. And so what made you kind of put all those resources together in one one place?

Ann Lopez: 7:05

So remember how I told you my biggest struggle when I was pivoting? Was that I cannot find reasons. Well, yeah, like I didn't even know where to start. And I don't want to pay for anything. Because if you know anything about me, you know that I'm scrappy, and cheap. I didn't want to. Yeah, and I was like, I found like a bunch of like, academies that would help people to get out of classroom, but which I'm sure it's great. But I just don't want to pay the money. And so if I can't find it, I figure, why not just create it on my own and share it. And that's how that's where the idea came from. Just to kind of help people that might have been in the same boat as me, finding free resources and knowing where to go. And yeah, that's where you stem from pretty much.

Heidi Kirby: 7:54

And a lot of people reach out to you also, and like say, Hey, thanks for helping me land this role or find this job. So I'm sure that that I'm sure it's been really helpful. I know that I direct people to like the resume repository, for example, all the time. You know, because there's, especially people who don't know what they want, right? Because there's so many different you have so many different types of resumes on there, like Project Coordinator, Program Manager onboarding, Test Manager, customer success. Yeah, there's so many different like, facets to l&d and ad tech. And it just is a really good way to kind of like, see what those different roles might look like to and to get a feel for, like what you might be interested in.

Ann Lopez: 8:49

Definitely. And there's just so many ways to craft a resume that oftentimes you just get so overwhelmed. So it's helpful to see, you know, the people that actually have successfully landed a role. How did they? Your resume, you know, so yeah, and then one thing that I really like, about the pivoter and what I like all of it, of course, because I also, if I put myself as a shoe in the shoe of the job seeker, is that the job board I tried to include the person that posted the job board.

Heidi Kirby: 9:25

Oh, yes, that's right. Because,

Ann Lopez: 9:27

um, you know, like, you know, people keep saying like, you should network you should like put yourself out there and talk to people and oftentimes you just like, okay, like, Who do I talk to, like, who should I reach out to? And so I figure people to actually post the job listing, they're actually sending an invitation to you and say, like, come talk to me, I'm hiring or like, my company is hiring. And so I see that as an open invitation for people to reach out to them and so you already you can already get through that fear of like people rejecting you or saying no to you, right? So now they will actually extending the invitation and be like, we're hiring, you know, this is the last thing. You know, it's SF like, come talk to me and learn more about. Absolutely, I find that little gem in that job board that I'm hoping that people that are using the pivot a job or has been kind of using an extended note kind of making themselves more noticeable with the person that actually share the job posting.

Heidi Kirby: 10:28

Yeah. And I've always told people like, wherever they go to look for jobs and to look for postings like that, like whether it's Glassdoor indeed Google, you know, whatever, to then try to find that same posting on LinkedIn, because of the fact that there might be a human attached to the post. Yeah, exactly can lead they can reach out to, you mentioned a really important thing about networking that I think I've talked about before, but I always like to just kind of reiterate it to people, because I think people get nervous. And that's like, it's okay to network with strangers on LinkedIn. Like it's not, it's not a normal social media in the way that you think of like a personal social media, right. And so I always tell people, like, you know, if they wanted to start at like your job board, or your resume samples to kind of see which titles appeal to them, like, find those one or two titles that really kind of fit what you're looking for, and then go on LinkedIn, and look for people who are already doing that job. And reach out to them, like add them, connect with them and add a little note that says, like, Hey, I'm just looking to connect with people on this field to learn more about it. The worst case scenario, in my case has been that they just don't accept the connection request, right? Yeah. And, yeah, I've never even like, rated or, you know, like,

Ann Lopez: 12:01

yeah, and it was hard. It was so hard for me to ID in the beginning, because I was just like, I don't know what to say. And I usually we just click that connect button, connect, connect, connect, connect. And then, you know, there's, there's also there's a lot of people that's very kind and say, like, Hey, thanks for connecting. And that's kind of how you start the conversation. And then there's those that, like you said, that don't respond or like, you just don't hear anything. But most of the time, what I found out is that they actually, they don't respond, because they don't check LinkedIn, and they're not active. So even if they have a profile, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're active user, like me or us like on there every day. So I would want to give them the benefit of the doubt and say, like, maybe they just don't choke for sure.

Heidi Kirby: 12:47

Yeah, that's also another good reason. And you know, you can check people's activity and see if they've interacted with things recently, or posted things recently. And you know, if you want to go, kind of like through that process of checking to see whether they're active, I don't think it's necessary in all cases, unless it's like a recruiter or hiring manager, but you're just looking to connect with people. I don't think it's as necessary. Just be aware that you may not get as many successful connections out of it, right?

Ann Lopez: 13:21

Yep, that's true. And I think like putting a note in there really does help. I know that on the phone, it might be tricky, because people think like, oh, you see that connect button. But if you go to that three little dots on the on the picture, that's where you actually write personalized invite. Yeah. We learned that after being active on LinkedIn for a while, which I'm ashamed to admit, but

Heidi Kirby: 13:43

no mean to same. Insane. I was like, how do you add a little note when you're on your phone, because I kept just like, connecting with people. And then I'm like, wait, because when you do it on desktop, you hit the connect button first. And then it's like, do you want to add a no, no. Yeah. And when you do it on mobile, it's like connection set. You're like, Wait, stop. Back. I didn't even tell them who I am. You know. But yeah, I think it's a lot of it is like just that getting over the like strangeness of connecting with someone, someone that you don't know, especially for people who are more introverted, right,

Ann Lopez: 14:21

like, definitely. And I feel like that's what I really love about LinkedIn because I'm more introverted. extrovert. I don't know what I have. But if you were to put me in like a conference with real people, and like, let's say you go to like a teacher conference, right? And I can imagine our teachers are like social butterfly, they would just be like, hey, what school are you from? Like, what district? Yeah. But like if we were to put ourselves in LinkedIn, we were just all like, you know, I don't know if I want to extend that conviction request. It's kind of weird talking to a stranger. But I'm thinking like, wait a minute, like these people don't even see my face. They don't know who I am. All they see is my name. And the picture and my title, like, like you said, like, what's the worst that can happen? They can just ignore me, right? And so once you get over that fear, like you said, it's like you get a rhythm going. And you see that people actually naturally want to help and respond and connect. You, You're surprised, like how many people you can reach out to and form a network from there? Yeah, really fun. And it really valuable platform that I feel like, make use of

Heidi Kirby: 15:28

Oh, for sure. And I think that's part of the issue, right, is that like, teachers aren't really hanging out on LinkedIn. And like, job seekers, in general, don't always hang out on LinkedIn. But like, there's like a few really prominent industries that I think are present on LinkedIn. And I think learning and development is one of them. And my theory for why that's the case, which may or may not be true, but my theory is that, you know, a lot of times, a lot of times, people are the only one on their team, or at their company, who is doing what they're doing, like the only instructional designer or the only organizational development person. So it creates kind of this space where you can have your, your co workers, right. And you can like talk about projects that you're working on, or situations that you're encountering that are tough for difficult conversations that you're having, and do it in a way that you get good feedback, even though that person may not be working with you every day.

Ann Lopez: 16:42

Right. And it's kind of funny that now that you talked about, it's actually quite a small circle in the l&d sector, once you become more active on LinkedIn, and you see, like the same few people like thought leadership, yeah, they're like, they share advice and tips. And it's good. I mean, it's good in that, because I knew and so there's so much learning to do. But I can imagine those that are more like experienced veteran like yourself are probably seeing the same names over and over in the same space.

Heidi Kirby: 17:13

Oh, yeah. And it's so helpful. And it's so great to see that the people who were helping back when I started four or five years ago, now are still the ones helping today. Like they're still really active. And it's really nice to just use nice, have that. And now like I'm working with them, and it's so crazy to me, you know, like Karen north and Tim Slade. Like they were doing the things that I wanted to do before I was doing it. And now like we're working together on things, and it's so nice, it's wonderful to like, you know, become really a part of that community, like you said, and so many people that I've talked to who are trying to get into the fields are just like, Everyone is so nice. And so, so willing to help and it's just really, it's really nice. You know,

Ann Lopez: 18:06

it is it definitely is.

Heidi Kirby: 18:10

So I want to ask you, what is the question that you get asked most often by people who are looking to change careers?

Ann Lopez: 18:21

Um, question that I get asked most often is like, what exactly is it like to experience design? Because that's, that was my role. And that was my title. And then another question I get asked a lot is like, how can I make myself stand out more? And that's mostly an ad tech, I think, because it's such a hot market right now. And then I think the other one is, like, I'm not sure what I should do, like, where do you think I should start? Like, what do you think I should be doing? Or what? What title should I be searching for? So kind of like what I was mentioning, when I first started, like, I have no idea like, like, you go to a job or like, what do you even look at as the as the like? Yeah, so those are the couple of like common ones that I've been asked recently.

Heidi Kirby: 19:14

Okay, so what advice do you give people to stand out in ad tech?

Ann Lopez: 19:19

I think, in ad tech, I would say to highlight or showcase how you are an expert in that product. Because at tech company, I think their ultimate goal is profit, right? As for profit, unless you're talking about nonprofit, even then you still want a lot of users to be aware of your value offering services or product wise. And so if you are saying that you want to be an ad tech and you want to work for a particular company, you probably got exposure from it from when you were using it as a teacher in the classroom, right? And so naturally, you already have a lot of expertise in that. And so just going in there and be like I love so and so my my Students love using someone. So that's not really, that's not really helping yourself to stand out. So what I would suggest doing is like, I'm sure you created some tutorials or step by step guide for your students, right click here, click here, and then you will see this and click here. Those are the like really valuable artifacts that are samples of your work that you should share with the company you're applying for. If you are the go to person in your grade level that teachers come to when they have questions, highlight that, right. Um, have your coworker write a few testimonials or something short blurb about how you've been helping them with, so and so. Or things that you created to make, you know, stuff easier to use or whatnot. If you are like professional development trainer or instructional coach, you record yourself giving a training session or workshop, you know, share the I'm sure you created slides, you know, share those slides. So those are all examples and artifacts to highlight how you have the skills and the expertise to be part of that company. And so what advice I would give is mainly be able to show and not tell. Sure, because it's such a hot market, like I said, and there's so many different teachers that can probably do what you do, but how can you make yourself stand out? And the only way to show that is to show it.

Heidi Kirby: 21:28

Right? Yeah, yeah, proof of concept, right? Yeah.

Ann Lopez: 21:32

And you know, not only like instructional designer that should have a portfolio I think like anyone should have some kind of portfolio like, go to Google site and get a free it's all free, go to Weebly and Cray something and just put all your work in there. And, you know, shoot that over to a recruiter the next time you talk to them or something.

Heidi Kirby: 21:53

Yeah, I've met a lot of people, though, who say like that when they talk to people in l&d that they get told not to use any work samples from when they were teaching? What do you how do you feel about that?

Ann Lopez: 22:09

To be honest, I actually, I landed in my current role by creating a training base of how to teach teachers how to use Google Classroom. And so that was exactly taken from my, from my experience from in public education as an instructional technology coach. And so like to answer your question, I would say you should use what you are most familiar with what you are most knowledgeable about, and highlight that. Yeah. And I think any companies that can appreciate that, and you tried to hide that your teacher would be like, misled, like, Would you really want to be part of that team? Or, you know, and weighing in like that? So?

Heidi Kirby: 22:52

Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with you, I used you know, there were like one or two things that I had created as part of my PhD program when I created my portfolio. But there are also a couple things from when I did like professional development with other faculty members and things like that, because my thing is for these, these poor teachers who are being told to hide their to hide the fact that they were a teacher, it's like, you have all of that experience. And that has led you to where you are today. Why would you want to sweep that under the rug? And who is telling these poor teachers this because it's basically, you know, taking away their their expertise, and they're soft skills and their transferable skills, yet, in a way that's like really kind of almost shameful for the people who are telling them to do this. Right. Like, that's who you are. That's where you came from. And look, so you came to instructional design from another field? Who didn't? You know, like, just because it was teaching, like, talk to other people who've been in the field longer did they? Did they go to do their bachelor's and instructional design? Because I'm willing to bet you that more often than not, they didn't, that they fell into it. I mean, there's the whole book by Kami being the accidental instructional designer, right? Because so many people fall into it. So rely on those skills and that experience that got you there. And I think it's silly that, you know, people are trying to get teachers to hide their teaching experience, you know, because it's professional experience, right? You're not going to be a teacher for 15 years, and then change careers and pretend like this is your first job you've ever had, you know, that would be silly, right? So, yeah, yeah.

Ann Lopez: 24:51

I hear you 100%. And it's actually like, I actually disclosed that early on when I was interviewing that I'm a PhD. I'm one teacher. And my expertise is actually in elementary education and pedagogy pedagogy. But you know, I have trained teachers, and I've worked with adults. And so my adult principle and learning theory and all that knowledge actually came not from school, but from me actually working with adult learners. And so like saying it like that, and putting it out there, it's so much more makes myself more confident and more comfortable to talk about whatever it is they're gonna throw at me. Versus like, if you try to hide it, like you said, from the very beginning, and then you have to work extra hard with your brain and try to convert your answer, which is may not come off as smoothly as fluently. For years. Yeah, right.

Heidi Kirby: 25:44

Absolutely. And sometimes I've ran into people who are being told to like, put instructional designer as their title on like, their LinkedIn instead of like, educator or teacher or whatever. And I'm like, Why would you lie? That's the first thing that as a hiring manager, I would look at and go, they don't have instructional designers in K through 12. That's so odd that this person is putting that because it's really, it's, it's kind of like if they called your school and said, Hey, did so and so work here, as an instructional designer, the school's gonna be like, What are you talking about? And then you're not going to get the job? Because you lied, right? Yeah. And for the people who are like, uncomfortable putting, like, instructional designer in like, their headline or something, I just always tell them to put them, you know, put, you know, learning professional passionate about learning and education,

Ann Lopez: 26:36

education professional. Yeah,

Heidi Kirby: 26:38

yeah. Like put those put those things that are true, that show those transferable skills, right.

Ann Lopez: 26:46

Yep, you're right. I think, yeah, like you said, I wouldn't necessarily call yourself instructional designer, if you're, if you're a teacher, like you, I think you should just say you're a teacher. And then if the job that you're applying for is instructional design, then perhaps on the top of your resume, you can say, instructional design, and then in your summary, you know, looking for opportunities to be in an instructional design capacity or something of that sort. And the reason being after looking through all the job postings. And a lot of people were saying like how like to ATS is going to spit your resume out without the proper keyword or whatever. And I think you cover all bases by doing that, right? So you're not really lying if you put your former experience as a teacher, but the future, your future role that you're applying for is actually instructional design. And then you put that right on the top, then that way, whatever ATS key word that you worry about will actually capture that right.

Heidi Kirby: 27:47

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. All right. So my last question for you is the same one that I asked all my guests and then what is one resource that can be book, TV show webinar podcast? Course, whatever you want one, one piece of media that you would recommend to other career picketers and why?

Ann Lopez: 28:14

I'm one that's tough, but so full, I know that when I started diving into looking into ad tech roles, one thing that I really rely on is called sort of like my, my Bible, if you will, it's at search.com. It has all things related to ad tech. And it's nonprofit. So it's not. They're not endorsing anything, you're not promoting anything. And so if you are, you know, really serious about going into ad tech, and you want to educate yourself and be knowledgeable about ad tech related things, I would suggest@search.com and they have an awesome job or two that they can use. Yeah,

Heidi Kirby: 28:57

perfect. Well, thank you so much, and for spending time with me. It was really nice.

Ann Lopez: 29:02

You're welcome. Thank you for having me.

Heidi Kirby: 29:05

Thanks again for joining me on the blog. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends and review us on your favorite podcast platform. I hope you'll tune in again soon.